No Apologies: An Interview with Emma Frankland

By Pluto Williams

“But it is not really about Kurt Cobain, it is about all of us.“

Photograph: Matt Crockett

Emma Frankland’s ‘No Apologies’ is a radical misremembering of Nirvana’s MTV unplugged concert which explores the idea of Kurt Cobain being a trans woman and the impact it might have made. The debut show will be performed at Attenborough Centre for the Creative Arts.

“As long as I have been coming out and in trans circles, definitely over the last ten years, it sort of goes around, this sort of game of guessing who might come out as trans, who you thought was trans, all these conversations.” Frankland explains where she first heard about the concept of Kurt Cobain being trans.  “I guess it’s one that has gained a bit more mainstream attention in the last year which was interesting for me as someone who has been working on the show for quite a lot longer than that. I feel like it’s one of the original rumours.” 

The show developed out of a solo performance. “It was 10 minutes long, it was really straight forward. There are definitely elements of it that are super central to the production, but I have wanted to do something responding to that idea of what if Kurt Cobain was trans for ages. I was working on a piece that was for trans pride and therefore was centering a sense of trans joy or pride for being trans. Even then the question was okay, so Kurt Cobain was trans, so what? What does that actually do? Discovering that it’s one thing to imagine celebrities being trans and what that means, but also that we need to be looking at each other and the community that surrounds us.”

Why Kurt Cobain? 

“Kurt Cobain was a lot of things, complicated and complex, and I am not here to hero worship particularly. But he was a celebrity that spoke out about social justice issues that they believed in and the idea that, like so many other more radical celebrities who died very young, they get kind of appropriated. Kurt Cobain had potential to be a real kind of disruptor in society, but it was taken away because they died so early. Now his music which was about protest, do something, don’t be apathetic, I am ashamed of my generation because we are not responding to racism, we are not responding to sexism, it becomes a fashionable t-shirt. I think there is something interesting about that as well, as to why they endure.”

“But it is not really about Kurt Cobain, it is about all of us. It’s about taking inspiration from the sentiment of someone who writes in the liner notes of their album ‘I don’t care if you love me, if you are racist, I hate you. Don’t buy this fucking album.’ Take that sentiment and try to hold that within the work that we are doing.” 

Frankland also uses classical mythology, especially the myth of Icarus, in her performance. “Within All Apologies [the song by Nirvana which the performance title riffs on] there is a line about sunburn and freezer burn and that kind of invocation of the Icarus story of trying to exist between the hot sun and the freezing water. Then I was thinking of working on that, I think Icarus is a very trans story as well. A story a lot of trans people relate to in lots of ways. I am certainly not the first person to look at it through that lens, but I think there is something that was exciting about talking about Kurt as a trans mythology and taking this mythological story and looking at that as a trans mythology as well. Looking at the two stories together. For me, there is something exciting about that idea of Icarus' downfall not being about pride, which we are told it is, because they went too close to the sun. Actually, if you are a trans person, if you are an outsider for whatever reason, maybe it shouldn’t be a sin to be too confident or too bold, or too cocky and what actually if they went into the sun and their wings melted and that is how they became themself.” 

“A lot of my work has centered around trans identity for over a decade now, to be honest.” Frankland explains. “I have sometimes spoken about this idea of ‘duty of care’ like what is your responsibility? Is there a social responsibility to making art or is it just, like I don’t know, go and have fun? I believe there is a social responsibility, I believe there is a real responsibility to art that can have an impact and then, for me, it becomes about reflecting your own experience of the world… In 2025 being a trans woman in the UK, there are a lot of factors outside of my control that impact me in my daily life, so the idea is to make art that speaks about that, that talks to my experience and community. It shows that I want to speak to the community about things that feel important, making shows that are for the community about things we want to see and making shows for a more mainstream audience that also don’t just water down the idea of being trans.” 

What would your advice be for people who want to start performing? 

“I think the advice is always see as much as you can, make as much as you can. The good thing about performance is that you don’t need to have a lot of money to make something. In an ideal world you should be getting paid. But if you can afford to get yourself, or a couple of people into a room to think of some ideas. You don’t need a flashy set, you don’t need flashy costumes, you don’t need a lot of stuff to make something that is going to be really brilliant and impactful. So, I think if you have ideas, get out there, start working on them, start writing, you can write whenever, wherever. The more that you get used to laying your ideas down, the better they will get. The richer your practice will become. The nice way of saying it is don’t wait for permission, just start making things yourself…Don’t wait for an invitation. Go see as much as you can. There is so much out there, online as well. Especially in Brighton, most of the venues if something isn’t affordable, oftentimes if you contact the theatre and say that you can’t afford a ticket- they will have initiatives to pay what you can and let people in. Most of the promoters in town are aware of how important it is to have accessible ticketing. Even if you can’t afford to see every piece of theatre that is going through, certainly the bougie expensive theatre, there is so much stuff online.” 

Likewise, do you have any advice for young trans people? 

“I think young trans people are doing great right now in terms of political engagement and organising, I think that it's really amazing to see ‘trans kids deserve better’; these sort of initiatives. I think advice, well it is not dissimilar to the advice about making art, connect with other people, connect with trans culture, try not to define yourself based on cisgender culture, look to also what is happening in the trans community and there is so much there, it's a really incredible time to be a trans young person as there is so much trans culture, so much trans knowledge out there. As well as the difficult political situation, I would say as well, really importantly, there is a lot of bad stuff, there is a lot of fear mongering. Trans young people in particular are held as a pawn in all of that. I suspect that it's really easy to feel very victimised and to almost define your existence around that. I think it's probably really essential to try and define yourself around this brilliant, rich culture and holding on to each other and looking towards what there is around you rather than letting the biggest voices that influence you be the hate voices. It’s easier said than done. It’s about finding community because there is plenty out there to be found.”

No Apologies! will debut at Attenborough Centre for Creative Arts on the 16th of April. The general admission is £12, the concession (which is applicable to university students, staff and alumni) is £10.